00:00 

Well, hey there. Welcome to Intentional Living with Tanya Hale. This is episode number 400, "Honest, Equal, Intimate, Keys to a Stronger Management." Welcome to your place where finding greater happiness through intentional growth, because we don't just fall into the life of our dreams...we choose to create it. This is Tanya Hale, and I'm your host for Intentional Living. 

00:24 

Alright. Hello there, my friends. Super, super glad to have you here today. And I'm glad to be here. This is podcast number 400. What in the world? Who, I don't know, who would have ever thought that I had this in me? I'm just so proud of the content that I put out and so glad to be able to be here sharing my experiences with you, sharing my learning, my understanding, my insights. I'm just so grateful for this work and for what it's created in my life and grateful for the work I'm able to do with my clients. Those that I see one-on-one, those that come to my group coaching, my Talk with Tanya, and those of you who are finding benefit here as well, even though we may have never chatted or talked, I'm just so glad you're here. Thank you so much. 

01:10 

Couple of things before we jump in. Next Talk with Tanya is March 10th. This is just a free webinar. Show up, get some coaching, ask questions, listen to other people get coached. You don't have to put your camera on if you just want to show up and listen. You can just show up and participate in whatever way you feel comfortable. We have amazing discussions about important topics. And I hope that you will take some time to get there. Go to tanyahale.com, go to the group coaching tab, and that will show up for you. Or alternatively, if you get my "weekend win," which is my email, which by the way, if you're not getting that, go get signed up. It will show up. Go to tanyahale.com. It'll show up in a pop-up for you when you first get on my website. This is some great stuff that just comes out every weekend. A podcast meant to be read in about two minutes. Not a podcast, sorry, an email meant to be read in about two minutes. Some good information. At the very top of that, I will also have a link where you can sign up for the Talk with Tanya. So get there. 

02:15 

Also, sense of self classes are up. They are ready to be signed up for. I've already got some people in the classes. Would love to have you join us. Sense of self classes. This is some of the most foundational and important work that I think I've ever done. These are the classes. They're my crowning glory at this point. I love them so much because the work that we do on ourselves in feeling good and confident and strong within ourselves does amazing things for our relationships. When I can show up with a good sense of self, I show up so much better in my relationships. When I show up insecure, lacking confidence, I am seeking validation. I become needy. I behave in unseemly ways and in destructive ways. Really cleaning up your sense of self, strengthening it is the best and the first way to have better relationships. So I would love to have you join us there. 

03:16 

And if you've taken the class before and you'd like to take it again, get in there and make sure that it happens because it's a great opportunity to deepen and grow more in your understanding. In every class that I've taught, they've all been different and you will learn something different and understand it from a different perspective. So would love to encourage any of you, whether you've taken the class before or not, to jump in and do it. 

03:44 

And the last thing I just always want to remind you, about a year and a half ago, I started putting in the show notes additional podcasts that have to do with the topic that this podcast is about. So if you are serious about really wanting to dig a little bit deeper into this content, go down to the show notes, follow those podcasts. I've got a Spotify and an Apple link, as well as the link that will send you just to the podcast on the website where you can either download the transcript or you can just listen to it online if you want. But those, these are such a valuable tool to push you farther in the direction that is going  to help you. 

04:25 

Okay, that being said, let's get started on today's podcast. Today, I'm going to be talking to you about creating equality in our marriages, in our relationships through honesty. And I will tell you that this is a huge problem in relationships, not being able to show up equal. And part of that is because we're not being honest. There's a lack of honesty and integrity. And many of us don't see it even because it's so tricky to wrap our heads around where we're not being honest. And so we don't even think about it. It's not even on our radar. 

05:08 

But let me tell you a little bit about my situation. Married for 24 years, really tough. My societal condition, and I'm sure that if you're like a middle-aged woman like me or even a middle-aged male, your messaging may have been different, but we still had in the 70s and 80s so much of a message that said you have to behave a certain way. So for me as a woman, I felt very much in that time being told that, "listen, you're just a little bit less important than the man." In fact, I remember being told in my young women's class that when you and your husband have a decision to make, you'll discuss it. And then because he's the priesthood holder, because he's smarter and more capable and more logical, he will make the final decision. Implied that then I was just supposed to stand back and go, "oh, that sounds lovely. Thank you, dear sweet husband," right? And we were taught not to be equal. I remember having discussions on the basketball bus saying, well, you never win a game with your husband or with a boy that you're dating because we don't want to mess up his ego, right? It's so important that we always make them feel stronger, smarter, better than us. You can never make more money than your spouse because that will make him feel inferior and make him feel less than. 

06:28 

And fascinating that we have these ideas and that we were taught these ideas. So I brought these ideas into my marriage. And I will tell you what, it was a disaster pretty much on a lot of that. And I didn't get it because I thought that I was doing things that were going to make my marriage better. I thought by not standing up and asking for what I wanted, that I was making it easier for him. Therefore, I was making it easier on the marriage. I was keeping conflict and contempt out of the marriage. And I have always prided myself on my integrity. 

07:08 

And so after my marriage ended and I was in those single years after being divorced, when I was first confronted with this idea that by not speaking up, by not having a voice, I was not being honest, I was appalled. Let's be honest. I was just like, wait a minute, how in the world? Because I've always just thought I'm just so honest. I have so much integrity. And when I realized that me not showing up well, not showing up honest, not having things that I wanted in my marriage and being able to speak up, I was not in integrity. Instead, I was pretending that I didn't have wants and needs. And on the backside, I was quietly building a reserve of resentment. This is not honest. I was avoiding conflict because I was afraid of contention. 

08:02 

That is not honest. I was showing up as a pretend version of me. That was not honest. I was pretending not to be bothered, pretending to be fine or okay about things going on. I was pretending not to have an opinion. I was pretending not to have a preference. I was pretending to like things I didn't like, all in the need not to rock the boat, to be low maintenance, to not cause conflict. I wanted to be amenable and adaptable. 

08:34 

And here's the thing. Pretending is not okay. In fact, pretending is dishonest. And no relationship can not only survive dishonesty, but no relationship can thrive in dishonesty. There is no way that we can create the kind of deeply intimate, emotional, and otherwise relationships that we want if we are not stepping into honesty, which in this case is also equality. No relationship will grow beyond this surface level engagement until we start showing up as us. But we cannot connect with a pretend character. And instead, we have to learn how to be more honest with ourselves and with others. 

09:25 

Honesty is learning to be upfront, learning to share the truth, learning to have the difficult conversations. Honesty is sharing difficult emotions and uncomfortable thoughts. It is having a different idea or a different opinion or a different preference. Honesty is coming to know yourself first and then letting that self be known to others, especially if we're talking about our spouse here, whom we generally really want to have a strong emotional connection with. If we are focused on people pleasing our spouse, we are not being honest. Now, people pleasing is acting out of alignment with what I want in an effort  to earn other people's approval or to make them like me more or with the hopes that it will circle back around and pay me back sometimes, this transactional piece, right? It's also hoping at some level to control their emotions. Do they like me? Do they feel comfortable around me, et cetera? So I do things in order to get them to like me, to feel comfortable. People pleasing is dishonest, not only with others, but more importantly, it's dishonest with ourselves. We are not being honest with ourselves about what we really want and we are not having our back. We are not showing up as equals. We're showing up for others, but we're not showing up for ourselves. 

10:56 

And when I am being kind to others in an attempt to get them to like me or approve of me, that's dishonest. Remember that phrase that we heard so often? We're just going to kill them with kindness. I used to think that was a great phrase, and I used to live a lot by it, but I have since decided I don't like that phrase at all because killing them with kindness is dishonest. I am trying to manipulate their emotions through my actions. If I'm kind enough, they will eventually come to like me. We get this idea that we can make people like us if we are just kind enough. And our go-to thought is that if we're kind and we want to be kind, that we don't want to hurt other people. Hurting other people does not feel in alignment with our values. But we also genuinely don't want to hurt others because of our words or actions. We're not hurtful people. We're not unkind people. But in doing so, in trying to preserve this kind idea that we have of who we are, we often tell half-truths or we omit information because or maybe we become passive aggressive in order to avoid saying the full thing. 

12:15 

This may feels like it feel like it saves problems right now, and it does because we're smoothing it over right now. And the primitive brain likes this, but it creates bigger and more extensive problems in the future. It's kind of what I call the easy, hard, hard, easy principle. We can do what's easy now and it's going to make it harder later, or we can do what's hard now and it's going to make it easier later. 

12:44 

So let's talk about some true honesty. This is having difficult conversations that clarify, conversations that build trust, that protect the future relationship. Honesty and kindness are the other end of the spectrum from people pleasing. And do you realize that honesty really is kind? Because it's protecting the future relationship. And also, we can be both honest and kind at the same time. Now, this doesn't mean that the other person won't get frustrated. Sometimes we are honest and kind and the other person gets frustrated. Or maybe they interpret what we're saying as mean or something. Okay, because that's just a part of being a human. We have different ideas. We have different opinions. And maybe we think, well, if I tell my husband that I have a different opinion than him, he's going to get upset. Well, that's very likely. People, it's easier for people when we all have the same idea, because then we don't have to collaborate. 

13:51 

We don't have to change our ideas. We don't have to consider somebody else's ideas about what's going on. And it's just not what being a human is about. Relationships are about two very different people coming together to learn to acknowledge and accept and appreciate the other person for who they are, regardless of how it may be different than we are. And so if you've been a people pleaser in your marriage for 25 years and all of a sudden you go, "wait a minute, I'm not being honest. I'm going to start stepping up and I'm going to start saying my stuff." And even if you do it very kindly and very lovingly, your brain will be uncomfortable for one. And two, their brain is going to be uncomfortable because their brain is going to say, "wait a minute, this isn't how it goes. Usually I say what I want and they just get in line." Of course they're going to be uncomfortable because you are changing the dance steps that they are so familiar with. And their primitive brain is like, wait, this isn't familiar. Push back, push back. We must not be safe, right? As soon as something unfamiliar comes into the screen, our primitive brain starts saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not safe. Start building blocks. Start putting blocks on our wall. I'll start creating protection for ourselves. Of course, that's what their brain does. 

15:18 

So when you start stepping into this level of honesty that we're talking about today to create this better, more beautiful, fulfilling relationship, it is going to be uncomfortable for you to do something different and it's going to be uncomfortable for the recipient, the other person in this relationship, of course. But until we start being honest, until we start showing up as an equal, we will never create the relationships that we want. Okay. And this means that we, when we see ourselves as equal, it means we have to start being honest about our own wants and needs. 

15:58 

Now, with the idea that our wants and needs, no, excuse me, not with the idea that our wants and needs matter more than theirs, but also the idea that our wants and needs do not matter less. Guess what? If we're going to be equal, they have to equal, they have to mean the same, right? Our wants and needs need to matter the same. And when we don't show up honest, we are not showing up equal. And until we can show up as an equal in our marriage, we cannot create a partnership. 

16:32 

Now, people pleasing and other forms of dishonesty may do what will keep the peace right now. They will seek to manipulate other people's feelings or the situation, but kindness is always honest about us and about how we want to show up. We want to make sure that we are not so kind that we forget to be honest, but we also don't want to be so honest that we forget to be kind. Honesty actually means to me that I am acting in integrity with my beliefs and values, that I am showing up as an equal in the relationship, being honest about what I want, what I don't want, what I like, what I don't like, what I prefer, what I don't prefer. That is an honest partnership. Now, I don't lie. I don't cheat others. I show up being genuine about my wants and needs and desires. Those all fit in the same category. Isn't that crazy? 

17:30 

Integrity for me also means that I honor other people's agency to have their own wants and needs and desires. And I make a clean space for their opinions, even though their opinions may be different than mine. Sometimes when we start going from this one-down, "I have to appease all the people," we do this huge pendulum shift all the way to the other side that says, "I don't even care about what anybody else thinks. I'm going to get what I want and I'm going to do it." And that is not healthy either either, because that is us going into a one-up space. We don't want to be in a one-down or a one-up space. We want to hit this beautiful center space that says, "we are equals. What I want matters just as much as what you want." So integrity means that I value the other person's worth and I treat them with respect. And I do that not because I'm trying to get anything from it, but because that is the kind of person that I want to be. I want to be a person who tells the truth, even when it's hard. And this means that I have to know the truth for myself. I have to step into myself to know what I want. Because oftentimes we don't even know or recognize the truth because we have not gone there. 

18:51 

And this is kind of an incredible place that we land during what is often called a midlife crisis. We get in this space where we have spent so much time taking care of everybody else's needs, making the world run smoothly, making our homes and our families run smoothly that our kids start leaving the home and we have a little extra time on our hands sometimes. And we go, wait a minute, I don't even know what I want. I was working with a client once who, once her youngest left the house and we were talking about things, she's like, I don't even know what my favorite color is. I don't even know what my favorite food is. She was so out of touch with who she was as a person because she had not considered her own wants and needs for so long. And this is the space that many of us have to start working to come into a better understanding of who we are with ourselves. 

19:48 

So let me give you an example from my current marriage. I've been married about four years and applying all of these tools has been a brilliant, brilliant piece of creating what is just feels like a magical and miraculous relationship for me. But we have had things to work through and I have had patterned behaviors that I have had to clean up. So here's an example. One evening, my husband and I were going to go out for a walk. And so I happened to be upstairs in my office getting some work done. And he was like, "hey, I'm ready to go." And I said, "all right, give me five minutes to just close this up and I'll be down." So I finished up my stuff and I went down and his office is on the main level. And I went into his office and he was on his computer working furiously. Now, he has this amazing ability to just hone in and focus really, really hard on what he's doing. And I love that about him. And this was one of those situations where I walked into his office, said a few words to him, and he was like, yep, yep. And he kind of answered my question. And he was just still just furiously getting things done on his computer. And I stood there and I stood there and I stood there. 

21:03 

And meanwhile, we had somebody else coming over that night and our window for going for a walk was getting shorter and shorter and shorter. And then we got down to like, I'd been standing there for like 15 or 20 minutes. I know, ridiculous, right? But here's where I was in my being able to take up space and be honest, right? And so, so finally he kind of looks up and kind of gets this little like, I just popped out of my days look going on. And he's like, oh, okay, let's go for our walk. And then I was like, well, I think we're out of time because so-and-so is going to be here in like 10 or 15 minutes. And he was like, oh. And I was like, yeah, it's all right. Like, it's all right. Like, look at me being totally dishonest, right? But I was, I was playing this fine card. We call that in our house, the four-letter F-word, right? Everything's fine. It's fine. And I didn't say it with a lot of attitude. I was kind of fine, but I was feeling angsty inside. I was feeling a little bit like something here is not right. 

22:03 

And I went into the other room and my husband followed me shortly thereafter. And I was like, you know what? Something about this does not feel good to me. And I'm not sure what it is right now, but I'm feeling really uncomfortable with what just happened. And he was, he's really great about stepping in and saying, "oh, well, tell me about what you're thinking. Tell me what's happening." And he started asking me some questions and I started responding. And finally, I realized, oh, I get what it is. I was showing up in a one-down place. I was not showing up as an equal. I was showing up like, okay, I'm just sitting here on the sideline waiting really small, waiting for you to have time for me. Rather than how easy would it have been in hindsight for me to walk in and just say, hey, I'm ready to go for a walk. And he probably would have said, oh, let me finish this one sentence, right? But rather than helping to snap him out of that and bring awareness to him, I just came in and kind of stood and was quiet and waiting. 

23:04 

And I realized that I did not show up as an equal in that scenario. I showed up in a less-than place. And so as we talked about that, I was like, oh, now I know that I get to be an equal, that I can walk in and I can say something. And fascinating, like my, my sweet husband was like, oh, and I see that I get so focused. And he was like, so in the future, if you see me that focused and I seem to not be responding, will you touch me on the shoulder? That will kind of snap me out of it. And I was like, okay, right. 

23:39 

But one thing I loved about that is that we both stepped into our own understanding. Rather than blaming the other person and telling them what they should do different, we both stepped into how did I contribute to this particular dysfunctional situation? And what do I need to do to be a more equal partner here? So it can feel overwhelming and confusing sometimes. And sometimes these situations take us by surprise and we don't always respond the way that we want to. But strong partnerships cannot be created in these one-up and one-down relationships. When one person sees themselves as better than or less than their spouse, then we are not showing up as an equal. 

24:24 

So in my previous marriage, I very often, because of the situation scenarios that I had been taught growing up, I oftentimes saw myself in a less-than mentality. "Oh, it's just my job to do this. It's my job to pick up the slack here. It's my job to not say anything. It's my job to keep the peace." All right. But then this is what would happen. This is so fascinating to me. I would do that. And then I would like flip into a one-up position. I would flip into a place where then I would get self-righteous and I would see, and I'm so much better than you because I am doing these things, because I'm making these sacrifices. So I found myself almost always in either a one-down, probably 70% of the time in a one-down situation, and the other 30% of the time I was in a one-up situation saying, and I'm better than you. And interesting that I did not go into the equal position hardly ever. It felt so out of alignment with who I was taught, taught, right, that I was supposed to be. And I look back on those teachings now and I'm like, those were just not okay. Because until I can show up as an equal, until all of us can show up as equals in our marriage relationships, we will never create this partnership, this bond, this oneness that we are capable of creating. 

25:51 

And so in my current marriage, before we got married, my husband and I had this conversation so many times. What does it mean to be equals? And we've both had some work to do there because my husband, and most men from the 70s and 80s generation growing up, also were taught inequality, but they were generally taught it in a one-up position, a little bit more of a grandiose. Well, I'm in charge. I'm the smarter one. I get to do what I say, like all this kind of stuff. But then we also, he also will notice in his behavior this one-down, well, whatever it takes to make the wife happy, happy wife, happy life, right? Like I married up. Like, men go into that position as well, right? 

26:38 

And so we just have to really watch how we're showing up and start showing up honestly. We have to show up with wants and desires and opinions and preferences. We have to be willing to create a safe space for ourselves. Because when we truly see ourselves and the other person as equals, we show up different in every way. When I look at my spouse and I go, you are my equal. And when I feel that in my bones, I treat him differently than if I think I'm better than him or worse than him. And vice versa. When he really, truly sees me as his equal, he shows up different in the relationship. We stop people pleasing. We stop placating. We stop giving in. We stop downplaying our challenges and our struggles. Instead, we start listening. We start understanding. We start questioning and sharing and exploring and collaborating. We show up as partners. We aren't intimidated or scared of a different opinion from this equal space because we realize that theirs, their opinion or ideas or preferences are just as valid as ours. They matter the same. One is not more important than the other. And when we see ourselves as a partnership, stepping into this collaborative space is so much easier. And it makes so much more sense. It doesn't mean that it's not going to be uncomfortable sometimes because sometimes being honest in our relationships is uncomfortable. 

28:26 

But that is part of what it means to be in a relationship. It means that because you are my equal, I will be honest with you. And with that honesty, if it's aligned with our values, most of us are going to also want to show up kind. Part of the struggle in my previous marriage was I just did not know how to show up honest and also be kind at the same time. It felt like every time I was honest, it created this huge fight. And I would start blaming him or criticizing him or doing something like that. And I've since learned, how do I do those two things? How am I honest and kind at the same time? Well, it all starts with believing that we are equals and with wanting to communicate in a way that says, "we are equals. I love you. I am assuming best intent of you. I want your life to be wonderful and happy. And I want my life to be wonderful and happy." I'm not going to sacrifice and lay down on the train tracks just so my husband can have a great life. We are going to walk hand in hand to create what we want. 

29:38 

And when I can step into that place, I'm not going to be intimidated or scared of a different opinion. This all stems from something that we call a sense of self. And this is a belief in our value as a person. It is confidence that even in our more difficult moments and even with our more difficult characteristics, that we are a person of worth. We are ultimately good in our core. We are strong and capable and intelligent. And we're a human that makes mistakes. And we will figure it out and we will be better. It is seeing ourselves as an equal. And this is the first key to creating a better, stronger, happier marriage and partnership. It does not start with our partner treating us better, as many of us, as I thought, at least in my previous marriage. I thought if he would just treat me better, I would be happier. It doesn't start there. 

30:42 

It starts with each one of us loving ourselves, believing in ourselves, believing in our goodness. Doesn't mean I'm not going to make mistakes. It doesn't mean I'm not going to say hurtful things, but it means that ultimately I know that even if I hurt somebody, I'm going to circle back around. I'm going to clean it up that I am loving in my core. It starts with us treating us better. Because when I love myself better, I am capable of loving other people better. And I don't feel insecure and I don't need their validation to feel like I'm good. And that's very often why we start being dishonest or stepping into this one-down place is when we feel like we need other people's validation to make ourselves feel good. Your relationship with you sets the precedence for every other relationship in your life. 

31:44 

This is important work. And it is work that is so worth doing if we are going to create the relationships that are deeply fulfilling and satisfying. Because I will tell you, having the kind of relationship that is equal is a brilliant, beautiful, fulfilling place to be. But we will not be equal until we choose to be honest. And that means that we have to start figuring out, where am I not being honest? It's been a pleasure to be with you today. I wish you all the best in your journey to create a beautiful life that you are seeking to create. And I hope that you will find what you're looking for. All the best. Goodbye. 

32:42 

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you would love to receive some weekend motivation, be sure to sign up for my free "weekend win" Friday email: a short and quick message to help you have a better weekend and position yourself for a more productive week. Go to tanyahale.com to sign up and learn more about life coaching and how it can help you get to your best self ever. See ya.