Tanya Hale 00:00 

Hey there, this is Tanya Hale with Intentional Living, and this is episode number 22, "Divorce in the Kids Part one." Welcome to your place for finding greater happiness through intentional growth, because we don't just fall into the life of our dreams...we choose to create it. This is Tanya Hale, and I'm your host for Intentional Living. 

Tanya Hale 00:21 

Okay, well hey there. This is Tanya, so happy to be here with you today. I have a special guest today. Today I've got my daughter Allison on. Allison is 19, and we're going to talk about divorce today. So I got divorced almost four years ago, we're just a couple of months away from that. And as with every situation, it's a challenge for kids, and it's really hard, and I thought it would be enlightening to bring Allison on here and talk about things that went well, things that didn't go well, how she adjusted, how she didn't adjust, all those kinds of things, and hopefully give some advice for those who are going through a similar kind of struggle. So Allison, say hi. 

Allison 01:05 

Hey y'all. 

Tanya Hale 01:08 

This is the first time she's done this. We're just going to start off today by jumping right into the divorce issue. So, Allison, so talk to us today about your initial response when you first found out that we were getting divorced. What was your reaction, and how did things go? 

Allison 01:31 

It was the worst possible thing that could ever happen to me. I remember sitting on the bed where you told us, and I just felt my entire world just completely crumble apart. And I just couldn't even be around the family anymore, so I remember I ran to my friend's house, and I was just there, like just bawling for three hours until you found me and, but it was just, it was unthinkable that it could happen at that time, because I was 14, 15? So I was just starting to realize there were just some moments where I was like, "huh, is that normal?" And I remember a couple of them, but I was just starting to notice just two or three instances. But other than that, like I didn't expect it to come. I didn't realize, I just thought it was the worst possible thing that could ever happen to my life. And I just thought that my life was, it was just torn apart and destroyed. 

Tanya Hale 02:49 

Yeah, it's a hard thing. So there wasn't a lot of outward fighting, yelling back and forth between your dad and me, but there was a lot of distance, right? And what of that did you get and what didn't you get? What was making sense and what wasn't? 

Allison 03:08 

Looking back, I honestly can say I've never seen you guys physically touch at all, other than maybe you're sitting next to each other and your legs brush each other. I've never seen you guys hold hands or hug or any words of affirmation or terms of endearment, like none of that was present at all. And then I would go to other family's households and their parents are like kissing and playing around and saying, "oh, I love you." And had they have like pet names with each other. And I just remember thinking, "parents do that? They kiss, they like each other?" So I don't know. I don't know how much of it I got in or not, but I was just starting to tell that it was weird that I didn't see a lot of affection or like between you two. 

Tanya Hale 04:11 

Yeah, so it's interesting to me what I thought would be that the kids would look at and "go, well, that's just weird that, yeah." I can see that, that even at 15, you didn't see a lot of that. That even at 15, you were kind of oblivious to the fact that there was so much underlying contention going on. And I guess because it wasn't a lot of really outward contention that maybe that was difficult for you, that it was hard to see. So the one that what I wanna talk about now is what are some of the huge struggles or challenges that the divorce brought into your life? And maybe some of them you've worked through, but maybe some of them you're still going through. But let's talk about some of the things that have been really hard for you. 

Allison 04:58 

I think one of the biggest ones is I pushed a lot of people away because I realized that everyone in life leaves you. So I still have this mentality a little bit, it's not as bad, but I remember you guys got divorced and my soccer team disbanded in the same weekend. I didn't connect with my siblings that well so my soccer team was like a second family to me, they were almost like more of a family and then to lose both of them in the same weekend was really really hard. So I just had this mentality that "well, everyone's gonna leave you anyway so don't let anyone get too close." And looking back at high school I definitely I was friendly with people and I had good friends, but I never let down those inner walls in a way that I really connected with people on a truly deep level. And I feel like now in college I've been able to strengthen those relationships with my friends but definitely in high school I just didn't want anyone to be around because if family's not there for you then who else is going to be there for yo?. So I think that's probably the biggest one. 

Allison 06:31 

Another struggle that I had was I have no idea what a good relationship looks like. I mean, at least intimately and up close, you know. So I've never seen what a good relationship should look like in the everyday day-to-day. I mean you go to other people's houses and you see their parents interacting but that's not the same as living with it day in and day out. So I think that since I don't know what a good relationship looks like or or how I'm supposed to act when I get into one or when I'm thinking of getting into one I think that that's holding me back a little bit. So I'm kind of scared of relationships, in a way. I've gotten better at family and friend relationships but definitely romantic relationships. I still just have no desire to put myself out there because I don't trust myself to be able to be a good person in a relationship. I don't trust myself to set the boundaries and make good decisions and keep it healthy.Bbecause if it fails, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do when I get there and I'm scared of the failure just because, I don't know, because relationships are scary. 

Tanya Hale 08:17 

Well, and I totally get the point that you didn't see, in all those really formative years, you didn't see a good healthy relationship. Things have been pretty tough for about four or five years before the divorce happened. And so, you know, we're talking you were like nine or so when things really kind of broke down to the point that it wasn't functional. So all those years that you would really remember that we were really trying and working on it, we're not part of something that you really remember a lot. 

Allison 08:48 

And a lot of things... because we've talked a lot about your relationship and what went wrong and what went right. But I'm scared that when I get into a relationship, something that I think is normal is abnormal and we just haven't covered it yet. So I'm gonna pull into this relationship and it's gonna be a huge red flag or just a huge problem when I don't even know that it's a problem yet. And I'm scared of that as well. 

Tanya Hale 09:23 

Yeah, then that's I think where communication in relationships really comes in, right? And talking and working through it. So, eh, scary stuff, right? A lot of big deep emotions here that run deep. So anything else that you feel was like some of the most difficult parts of the divorce for you? 

Allison 09:44 

I always felt like I just had these two separate lives because I feel like I couldn't talk to dad about what was happening in my life with you. And I felt weird talking to you about my life with my dad. And then we were getting moved back and forth between the houses and we had two separate rooms and two different wards. Two different family dynamics as well because especially the longer it's gone on, the more binary you guys have become, you guys have changed just in different ways, not good or bad. So now there's kind of two different family dynamics and it's like, oh yeah, going to mom's house, it's more like this, where his dad's house is different. So it was very kind of hard initially to get used to having to go back and forth between houses. And someone's like, hey, can I hang out? And I ask you and you're like, "oh, you're not at my house that weekend." And I have to ask dad. And so that was also really hard, like the two different houses. 

Allison 10:58 

And then I also a lot of times I felt like I was just shipment to you guys. I was just cattle being moved back and forth. A lot of times I didn't feel like a person because all that mattered was that I was at your house by a certain time, all that mattered was...just everything was about "oh no, you're at my house this weekend." And it got better over time but especially that  first year year or two it was so strict that I felt like you didn't see me as your daughter you saw me as an object that you possessed Monday through Thursday, every week and every other weekend. 

Tanya Hale 12:02 

And I can definitely see that because I think for me going through the divorce the first probably year and a half was the toughest as far as feeling like I really had to start learning to stand my ground and feeling like it was still a battleground. And I think since that time I've really eased off to the point where now I just don't feel bad at all. I don't feel like there's a battleground going on with me as far as feeling like I have to control that more. And I think as hard as I tried not to pull you in and make you a pawn, I think sometimes I did. And it was really hard to separate that out from that feeling of trying not to be controlled and trying to find my own path here. It was really, really hard. And I don't know. I think it's just always challenging, right? I think it's challenging from both sides. And as a parent, boy, I was trying my best and doing my best. And I thought that I was doing better than I was as far as keeping that out, you know, keeping those feelings of frustration with your dad out and trying to not create that feeling where you felt like a piece of property. I remember the first time you told me that it just broke my heart, you know? And I just, I didn't want you to feel that way, you know? And the fact that you did really hurt me. It didn't hurt me that you said that, but it hurt me that I was part of helping you feel like that. And it made me feel really sad. And it made me kind of double down on figuring out how to do that. 

Tanya Hale 13:46 

So, okay, so let's move on from the bad stuff, right? The challenges and the trials, obviously there's a lot of those, but what are some things that your parents did? Probably more me, because that's easier to talk here about. But what are some things that I did that were hurtful beyond making you feel like a piece of property sometimes? Can you think of anything? Or was that the biggest deal? 

Allison 14:17 

That was probably the biggest one. I mean, obviously little things here and there. But I feel, for the most part, you're pretty understanding of everything. 

Tanya Hale 14:37 

Okay, so let's take that then into what are some things that your parents did that helped with the transition into the divorce stage of our lives? 

Allison 14:50 

I feel like once you figured out that I wasn't a piece of cattle, it helped my mentality a lot better because then I didn't feel guilty about wanting to spend time with my dad. You know, because he likes to go to movies so he would invite us to go to movies. And I don't know I always it was almost a bad thing to want to love my dad and hang out with my dad because "oh no, you're in my house that day." So I think once you realized, once I told you that I was having a hard time, and you stepped back a little bit I realized that it was okay to love both parents. So I feel like you allowing me to have my independence and make my own choices really allowed me to realize that family was important again. You know, saying "yeah, I don't care if you go over to your dad's house today or if you go have dinner with him" when he wanted to see me or whatnot. That really allowed me to respect you a lot more because you were respecting me. Because I was 16, 17ish and you were finally allowing me to go where I wanted to go and it wasn't a big thing if I wanted to go to my dad's house on a day that I technically wasn't supposed to be there by the court, you know what I mean? 

Allison 16:23 

Another thing that I think really helped is you initiated talks. I really didn't like them at first because, not that you were forceful, but you definitely were not like...I knew that we were going to be talking about it. How do I ...you weren't like, "oh, is there anything you wanna know?" And then of course I'm not gonna say anything. You were like, "hey, let me talk to you about something." So I knew that like I had to bear through them while you explained stuff to me. And then as I matured a little bit and kind of came to terms with it a little more, I asked questions and you answered a lot of my questions. Some of them, you know, you step back and you're like, "I'm not gonna answer that. You just don't need to know everything about the divorce." And that really made me respect you because I realized that you focused more on the lessons that you learned from the divorce. So you focused on like boundaries and hurt and harm. And trust versus forgiveness and you taught me all these lessons from it that I can implement in a future relationship. But you didn't focus on "oh well, I did this and da da da da and then your dad did this and da da da da," you didn't focus so much on the events, but the lessons. So that really helped because you weren't talking bad about my dad and I love him. I really do and it really helped that you respected him and you respected that there were some things I shouldn't know. You respected that he was my dad and that I do love him  and that he has stayed in my life, which I know a lot of parents when they divorce, one of them drops off the map. So you Were grateful that he wanted to stay in my life. And I really saw that you were trying to teach me the problems of the divorce, but you weren't trying to teach me that you were a horrible person or my dad was a horrible person because the marriage failed, because y'all got divorced. And that really helped because that again helped me realize that family was important after it had basically been torn apart and shoved in the back shelf and completely useless. So that helped that you respected the situation. 

Tanya Hale 19:23 

Yeah, well I definitely feel like your lives are always gonna be better with your dad in your life. Because your dad loves you a lot. And and your life is only gonna be better if he's there. And so learning how to have a good relationship with both of us is really important to me, right? Anything else you think that your parents did right, either me or your dad, that helped you to get through it better? 

Allison 19:55 

I've talked to people whose parents got divorced and they just always felt like it was their fault even though they were young when they got divorced or it wasn't about them. So hearing their stories and then looking back, I'm really glad that y'all emphasized how it wasn't our fault. That's one of the only things I remember from getting told, because I kind of blanked out and time moved in slow motion type deal. I just remember you saying "this is a decision between your dad and I, it is not your fault. None of it is your fault. It's between me and your dad." And I remember you emphasized that three or four times when you were initially telling us about the divorce.Sso I never really had that mentality or the problem thinking that it was my fault you. 

Allison 20:50 

And then another big thing is you've been very respectful with your dating. Because it's hard. I mean... 

Tanya Hale 21:02 

I haven't done a lot of dating. 

Allison 21:06 

But the little you have you ran it by us, first of all, and you've talked to us, at least to me you've talked to me about it. And that means a lot because it really shows that you realize that if you remarry or whoever you're dating, like he's gonna be in my life, too. 

Allison 21:26 

So it really helped me that you were so "okay, so I'm kind of liking this guy a little bit," and I was like, "ooh Tell me more." But you always ran it by me first. And I remember when we were on the online dating site just scrolling through...you've never realized how much of a judgmental person you are until you get on those sites. That was another thing that I really respected about you is you realize that your future dating life your kids would be directly involved with it because they were gonna be directly affected by it, potentially In the future if it goes on to more than just dating you know, he's gonna be there and potentially a father figure. So I think that you looking out for me and Madeleine especially, since we're still living with you, has really meant a lot to me that you think of me first In a situation that could potentially be really problematic for us. 

Tanya Hale 22:46 

It has to be hard to watch your parents start dating other people, I'm sure. 

Allison 22:50 

Mm-hmm. Because I've heard nightmare stories from friends, like absolutely nightmare stories. 

Tanya Hale 23:01 

Okay, so I hope this has been really helpful so far I'm gonna cut it here and we're gonna cut this interview in two parts because it's gone so long. So next time we're gonna discuss a little bit more with Allison about how she came to terms with the idea of her parents' divorce, some good things that have come from it, some future concerns that she has about her dad and I being divorced, and any advice that this 19 year old has. So obviously every divorce is different and every kid is going to handle it differently But I have loved talking with Allison and seeing her viewpoint on things that happen and I think it's very insightful for us to start discussing this from a kid's point of view as well. So we'll call it quits for now and the next time we will finish this conversation and I hope that you're really having a good day and I hope this is helpful. So we will talk to you next time, bye. 

Tanya Hale 23:53 

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you would love to receive some weekend motivation, be sure to sign up for my free "weekend win" Friday email: a short and quick message to help you have a better weekend and position yourself for a more productive week. Go to tanyahale.com to sign up and learn more about life coaching and how it can help you get to your best self ever. See ya!